Game 163: Vyros2 vs Harbinger

Game 163 – Vs Adam Cort – Protectorate of Menoth – 21/03/18

My list:

Vryos, Incissar of the Dawnguard (Forges of War)

-Sylys Wyshnaylrr, The Seeker

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Aspis

-Aspis

-Imperatus

Arcanist Mechanik

Arcanist Mechanik

Arcanist Mechanik

House Shyeel Artificer

Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress

House Shyeel Arcanists

House Shyeel Arcanists

His List:

The Harbinger of Menoth (The Faithful Masses)

-Hierophant

-Devout

-Sanctifier

Champion of the Order of the Wall

Champion of the Order of the Wall

The Covenant of Menoth

High Paladin Dartan Vilmon

Paladin of the Order of the Wall

Paladin of the Order of the Wall

Reclaimer Gatekeeper
Anastacia di Bray

Max Idrian Skirmishers

-Chieftain & Guide

Max Horgenhold Forge Guard

-Attenant Priest

Min Choir of Menoth

Round 2 of Vyros2 vs Menoth saw Adam dropping Harbinger, who is making a pretty significant comeback. I was glad to get a game in against her as it is the kind of match up that is difficult to theory into, so some table experience was going to be invaluable. Adam won the roll to go first and we got moving.

Adam marks the point that Harbinger is going to run to, and moves the rest of his forces into a 10” circle around her. The jacks partrol close to Harby on the left with the Hammer Dwarves on the right.

I have to get up into some threat ranges so move my forces up to within charge range of the Idrians and the Champions, but out of range of the rest. Vyros casts a Twister onto 4 Idrians, forcing Harbinger to Martyr for 7 boxes (she healed back in her turn). Vyros gets up the table pretty aggressively as I’m going to need every attack I’ve got to grind through this list.

Adam makes a start on the attrition by taking the charges that he can into me, dealing some decent damage. Harminger heals up, Purifys off Synergy and uses her Feat. The Covenant moves up behind the central building and puts up the No Spell bubble to make recasting Synergy difficult. He doesn’t get too much contesting the zones though, and nothing in place to score his zone or contest mine, so I may have a way in on scenario.

One thing that my list definitely has going for it is plenty of quality attacks, so it is time to see how much of Harbinger’s force they can clear out. Vyros walks out of the Book’s range to cast Synergy and another Twister before Repositioning back where he was. Griffons kill off a handful of Idrians before one charges through to attempt to dismount the Champion on the right, but the dice say no. In terms of trying to push for scenario, the Artificer moves to my flag with Polarity Shield up, and I put the largely useless Lanyssa onto the left flank to tempt Anastacia to Ambush over there and not trivially contest my flag. I lead 1-0.

Anastacia does come on to the left flank and quickly removes Lanyssa before Adam steps up his attrition play. With my Feat up I am able to protect some pieces but still lose both Griffons on the right and one on the left to a combination of Paladins and Forge Guard. He doesn’t contest my flag though so I move to a 2-0 lead, but am rapidly losing out on attrition.

Had I managed to take out the Champion’s horse on the previous turn I would have considered running everything up into Adam’s face and hope to hold out to get to 5-0 or 6-1 on scenario, but with a 16” run if would be far too easy for him to contest and close that avenue out. Instead I just continue on attrition, and am starting to get somewhere myself. I move to 3-0 on CPs.

My picture taking went pretty badly to the end of this game, so sorry for that. Adam gets my flag contested and repositions Harby’s entourage over to his flag to start scoring in return. Between the Sanctifier and the Forge Guard he is able to take out all my remaining light jacks, leaving me with just Vyros, Imperatus and some support. He closes the score to 3-2.

The attrition game is thoroughly lost, but I have a path to get Imperatus through to Harbinger. It is a long shot but when that’s all you have you roll the dice. Vyros adds a single point of Synergy and Imperatus is powered up before going in. I was unable to get up Concentrated Power due to the location of the book, so was at P+S 18. The Side-Steps get me there, and after my attacks Harby is left on 3 boxes. I concede the game.

DEFEAT

A really useful game here to see how she plays on the table these days. There were definitely things I could have done differently. The assassination odds (assuming both initials hit) were 28%, but had I kept a single Jack alive it would have been up at 58%. Similarly had I positioned slightly further from the book so that I could get Concentrated Power onto Imperatus that would have increased my odds as well. A really good couple of games, and I now feel a bit more prepared to face Menoth at upcoming events.

Game 162: Vyros2 vs Reznik2

Game 162 – Vs Adam Cort – Protectorate of Menoth – 21/03/18

My list:

Vryos, Incissar of the Dawnguard (Forges of War)

-Sylys Wyshnaylrr, The Seeker

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Griffon

-Aspis

-Aspis

-Imperatus

Arcanist Mechanik

Arcanist Mechanik

Arcanist Mechanik

House Shyeel Artificer

Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress

House Shyeel Arcanists

House Shyeel Arcanists

His List:

Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages (The Creator’s Might)

-Hierophant

-Repenter

-Repenter

-Repenter

-Repenter

-Scourge of Heresy

Vessel of Judgment

The Convenant of Menoth

Vassal Mechanik

Vassal Mechanik

Wrack

Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard

Max Idrian Skirmishers

-Chieftain & Guide

Max Choir of Menoth

With Menoth making a bit of a comeback in the meta now I felt that it was time to get a few practice games in against them. I met with Adam for a couple of games, knowing that I was going to drop Vyros2 into whatever he wanted to play into me. First up was a Reznik2 list with a load of Repenters backed up with some heavy hitters. The flails were the biggest worry in this game as they ignore the Shield bonus that Griffons rely on for survival. I won the first turn and we got moving.

It has been a little while since I’ve played this list but nothing has changed much. Vyros casts Deceleration and gets up the table, before all the Griffons do Fleet runs to get to the edge of the Idrians’ charge ranges. Lanyssa moves up on the left to loiter around my flag.

Adam gets his forces up the table, being careful not to put any of his important pieces into threat range. The Idrians put 2 CRAs into my jacks, dealing decent damage to a Griffon and an Aspis. Death March is cast onto the Idrians and Lamentation put up by Reznik himself.

There are models in my threat ranges, so time to go in, kill what I can, and Feat to make Adam’s next turn a bit more difficult. I build Synergy with Vyros and a couple of jacks on the Idrians before firing Griffons into Repenters. I don’t have great dice and only destroy one of them, leaving 2 others on a handful of boxes. I’m going to take a load of damage next turn but should have enough left to power through the game.

As predicted, Adam strikes back and gets a pretty decent amount of work done. Two griffons on the right and one on the left are taken out by Repenters, some shooting and charges from the Honor Guard, but I am able to manoeuvre my Aspises to stop him getting to any of the further back Griffons. The last couple of Feat moves see Vyros and Imperatus move into position for next turn. Lanyssa scores my flag for a 1-0 lead.

I’ve lost a bit but still have plenty left in the tank. The Covenant is aggressively positioned with no spells up so using my Arcanists on the right is impossible. Once again I build Synergy on the lowest hanging fruit, with a nice Quick Work shot from Vyros finishing off one of the damages Repenters. I then start on his more important pieces, and by the end of the turn have finished off all the Repenters, Scourge of Heresy (thanks to some pretty insane dice) the Covenant and both Honor Guard. I score 2 points to move to 3-0, and as we still have the chance for another game Adam concedes.

VICTORY

Nothing too important to note in this one, as some lists, this one included, just don’t have enough beef and hitting power to get through Vyros, letting his efficient Jacks do their thing. Going first is a huge deal in this matchup and definitely helped out and gave me the opportunity to score points safely on my flag. Next up, Harbinger.

Game 161: Rahn vs Vlad1

Game 161 – Vs Jim Gradwell – Khador – 17/03/18

My list:

Adeptis Rahn (Defenders of Ios)

-Sylys Wyshnaylrr, The Seeker

-Chimera

-Phoenix

Arcantrik Force Generator

Arcantrik Force Generator

Arcanist Mechanik

Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios

Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen

Max Houseguard Halberdiers

-Officer & Standard Bearer

Max Houseguard Halberdiers

-Officer & Standard Bearer

Lynus Wesselbaum & Edrea Lloryrr

His List:

Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince (Winter Guard Kommand)

-Juggernaut

-Juggernaut

Greylord Forge Seer

-Destroyer

Greylord Forge Seer

-Marauder

Doom Reaver Swordsmen

Doom Reaver Swordsmen

Min Greylord Outriders

Min Greylord Outriders

The final round of the steamroller sees me face off against Vlad1 again, this time with the still relatively new Greylod theme piloted by Jim. I chose to drop Rahn again as I’m starting to feel fairly comfortable with the list. Jim wins the roll to go first and we get moving.

The Khador forces run up the table, spreading out pretty wide with the jacks fairly central. The Doom Reavers sit in front of the Greylords to protect the fragile cavalry.

As per the last game I have to balance taking a ranged alpha with getting up the table. Both AFGs are TK’d and walk forward, throwing out some AOEs in the general direction of the Doom Reavers. I hit a couple, but don’t break armour, but still leave some useful areas of rough terrain. My Halberdiers advance in 3 lines, the right unit pushing slightly further forward due to Polarity Shield protecting them against Doom Reaver charges.

Jim starts to get work done but is careful to keep Vlad as safe as possible. The Outriders spray into my Halberdiers before Repositioning back to safety. The Destroyer shoots off a couple more and a couple of Doom Reavers charge into the left Halberdiers, but being out of the Signs and Portents bubble he is unable to overcome the Set Defence on the unit.

Going an assassination this turn would take far more of an “all in” commitment than I was willing to go for, and was playing the list to test its attrition capability, so decide to play it out. After the Phoenix moves up and shoots off an Outrider, Rahn Force Hammers a Marauder over Vlad, killing 2 Doom Reavers and knocking the caster down. My AFGs open up, finishing off the left Outriders, and knocking down the Destroyer. That opens up the way for Eiryss to land a Disruptor Bolt on Vlad, removing his Focus for next turn. I score my flag and my zone for a 2-0 lead.

Vlad is pretty sad without Focus, but still has his Feat and 2 Forge Seers to get some Focus efficiency with. A Doom Reaver runs up, and is shot by the Destroyer to take out Eiryss with blast damage. Doom Reaves on the left dismount Skeryth and contest by flag, whilst the remaining Outriders continue working on my Halberdiers on the right. Finally the 2 Juggernauts charge into my Phoenix and destroy it. The score remains at 2-0.

I can win the game this turn by scoring 3 CPS, and my flag, zone and the central zone are all possible, so I work towards that. On the left Skeryth and the remaining Halberdiers clear the 2 Doom Reavers to score the flag. On the right the remaining Halberdiers charge and kill the contesting Outrider. In the centre the Chimera gets into position and kills the knocked down Doom Reaver, before Rahn Force Hammers one Juggernaut out of the zone, and TKs the other 2 jacks to clear and score is with Lynus and Edrea. Unfortunately, in clearing the zone I had slammed the Marauder back into Jim’s zone, allowing him to score it, so the score moved to 5-1.

Jim grabs the opportunity I needlessly gave him with both hands, shooting Rahn with the Destroyer before charging and killing him with a Doom Reaver.

DEFEAT

Whoops. Just slightly took my eye of the ball in what was otherwise a pretty decent scenario play. There was no reason that a Halberdier from the left unit couldn’t run and contest the zone that the Marauder ended up in, and unfortunately that was the difference between victory and defeat. Aside from that though I was still very pleased with how the list played. It attritioned pretty well and keeps the opponent on his feet due to the assassination potential. I could probably have gone for the kill on turn 2, but learnt a lot more about the list by not doing. Jim was a pleasure to play against and 2^nd place in the event was a pretty decent consolation.

Game 160: Rahn vs Vlad1

Game 160 – Vs Jonny Jennings – Khador – 17/03/18

My list:

Adeptis Rahn (Defenders of Ios)

-Sylys Wyshnaylrr, The Seeker

-Chimera

-Phoenix

Arcantrik Force Generator

Arcantrik Force Generator

Arcanist Mechanik

Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios

Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen

Max Houseguard Halberdiers

-Officer & Standard Bearer

Max Houseguard Halberdiers

-Officer & Standard Bearer

Lynus Wesselbaum & Edrea Lloryrr

His List:

Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince (Winter Guard Kommand)

-Marauder

-Marauder

-Marauder

Winter Guard Gun Carriage

Winter Guard Gun Carriage

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich

Min Winter Guard Infantry

Min Winter Guard Rifle Corps

-Rocketeer

-Rocketeer

-Rocketeer

Min Winter Guard Rifle Corps

-Rocketeer

-Rocketeer

-Rocketeer

Winter Guard Mortar Crew

Winter Guard Mortar Crew

Winter Guard Field Gun Crew

It seems to be tradition at tournaments now that I end up playing Jonny at some point. Sadly I didn’t have my usual Khador drop of Kaelyssa and so decided to try Rahn out to test him into this kind of match up. Jonny was expecting Vyros and so dropped Vlad1. Jonny won the roll to go first and we get moving.

No frills from Jonny on turn 1 as he just runs his forces up the table, keeping Vlad safely behind the central cloud. The two Gun Carriages flanked hard on each side with the jacks in the centre around Vlad.

I’m going to have to get up the table and face at least one turn of gunfire so I may as well get it over with. The AFGs move up and are TK’d firing AOE shots towards the Winter Guard but with limited success. The Halberdiers go into Shield Wall and move up in pairs. The rest of my army moves up behind to see what opportunities come up next turn.

The Khador forces shoot into my Halberdiers and deal an impressive amount of damage. By the end of the turn I am down to 4 Halberdiers in the left unit and 5 in the right as well as being able to scalpel out Eiryss. Jonny’s Marauders fan out to threaten a wide portion of the table.

I’ve lost a lot of infantry so need to strike back hard to stay in the game. Thankfully in order to get shots off Jonny has clumped up his Winter Guard on the right, so the AFG opens fire and essentially removes the unit. On the left a few Momentum shots remove the Mortar and some further Riflemen. 4 Halberdiers then charge the left Marauder under Team Effort, spiking some huge damage to leave just its movement left.

Jonny continues shaving away my forces, taking out more Halberdiers, my objective, and my Chimera. There isn’t much to say about Jonny’s turns; he has guns and he shoots them at me, that’s really all there is to it. He scores the objective and right zone for a 2-0 lead.

I start out the turn looking to continue the attrition before getting a real slice of luck. I Force Hammer the back Marauder over Vlad, getting such a distance that the least disturbance rule pushed Vlad slightly forwards towards me, and knocked down. A TK on Vlad and Joe left him in range of the AFGs with only 1 Sac Pawn target. The AFGs opened fire leaving Vlad on just a single box, and me looking around my army for any more shots I could take. With an advance and Zephyr I could get Lynus’ Gun in range, and he rolls the 6 for damage needed to take Vlad down.

VICTORY

Not a good match up for my Rahn list. Just too many high quality guns to destroy my Halberdiers leaving my AFGs and Rahn far too much work to do. Without the lucky slam into Vlad I would have just been ground out, so this is one I need to be careful of in the future. Still, I have somehow got through to the final of the SR, where more Khador awaits.

Game 159: Vyros2 vs Morghoul2

Game 159 – Konrad Krolicki – Skorne – 17/03/18

My list:

Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard (Legions of Dawn)

-Sylys Wyshnaylrr, The Seeker

-Harpy

-Harpy

-Aspis

-Siren

-Siren

-Siren

Arcanist Mechanik

Arcanist Mechanik

Arcanist Mechanik

Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir

Max Dawnguard Sentinels

-Dawnguard Sentinel Officer and Standard Bearer

-Soulless Escort

-Soulless Escort

-Soulless Escort

Max Dawnguard Sentinels

-Dawnguard Sentinel Officer and Standard Bearer

-Soulless Escort

His List:

Lord Assassin Morghoul (Disciples of Agony)

-Basilisk Krea

-Battle Boar

-Blind Walker

-Blind Walker

Mortitheurge Willbreaker

Paingiver Task Master

Paingiver Task Master

Max Croak Raiders

Max Croak Raiders

Farrow Valkyries

Farrow Valkyries

Farrow Valkyries

Min Paingiver Beast Handlers

Paingiver Blood Runners

I played in an 8 man steamroller on Saturday using the same Vyros2/Rahn pair I’ve been playing around with recently, but with a couple of changes to the Vyros list to put in an Aspis and some additional Soulless Escorts. Round 1 put me up against Konrad with his Skorne, using the really interesting Disciples of Agony theme with Mordikaar2. Not wanting to have to deal with Blind Battle Engines I dropped Vyros2. I won the roll to go first and we got moving.

I find Croak Raiders really difficult to play against with Sentinels. There is such a difficult balance to find between getting up the table, but staying out of range as much as possible, and between having high enough armour to protect against the attacks, but not so high that they can just set all the Sentinels on fire and not trigger Vengeance. I opt to cast Synergy and Deceleration but only have the jacks and models out of threat within the bubble, pushing up a few Sentinels from each unit to tempt attacks.

Konrad start moving up his forces and takes shots into me where he can, taking out the Soulless on the left and 2 Soulless and a Sentinel from the right, more than acceptable losses to have Vengeance triggered on both units. The rest of the units move up behind, covering his army pretty well with his 11 Shield Guards.

With an extra 3” move from Vengeance my forces are in a strong position to push deep into his army. My jacks put some shots into him but achieve little due to the quantity of Shield Guards, but the Sentinels charge in and kill of 4 Croak Raiders. Both units Minifeat for Iron Zeal, and Vyros Feats hoping for the chance to open up opportunities next turn.

Croak Raiders become pretty sad once they’re engaged, so Konrad doesn’t get an incredible amount done this turn. He Feats to Blind several of my Sentinels and 2 Jacks, before putting Mortality on the right unit. His Bloodrunners Ambush on and between them, the Valkyries and the Croaks they are able to take out around a dozen Sentinels. Konrad doesn’t contest my flag however and so I score it to take a 1-0 lead.

An unexpected CP up with few models contesting the zone leaves an opportunity to take an early scenario win. I need to clear both zones and destroy the objective but it seems possible. A combination of shooting and Sentinels successfully clear the left zone, with 2 Sentinels charging and destroying the objective before I start on the right. Some slight miscalculations on Shield Guards mean I don’t play it out perfectly, but it still comes down to 4 Tough Croaks against 3 Sentinels and the Scyir. The first Sentinel kills, the second Sentinel kills, the third is toughed leaving the Scyir to charge in and finish the job, but he misses, leaving a single Croak Raider denying me victory. I move to a 4-0 lead.

Konrad grasps his new lease of life and has a huge turn of attrition. Most of my remaining Sentinels are taken out by Konrad’s infantry, and the Croaks put a load of damage into my Jacks. The left Blindwalker then charges in and takes out my Aspis. Konrad scores his flag to start turning scenario back to 4-1.

I have a half hearted look at an assassination run but quickly rule it out, opting instead to go for a more dishonourable win condition of clocking my opponent. I move through my turn quickly, taking out the Blindwalker at the end of a Synergy chain, before hitting back the clock at 4-2 to me.

Conscious of his low clock Konrad chooses to go for the assassination. Morghoul charges up into range to cast Mortality onto Vyros, but misses the re-rollable 11 needed to hit. He is all in at this point to the Blindwalker goes in, but needs to boost hits and so leaves Vyros alive on a handful of boxes. The Scores level at 4-4, but Konrad has less than 15 seconds left.

I consider looking at how to kill off the caster, but opt to just take the clock win. I contest the left zone and hit the clock back, it timing out a few seconds later to give me the win.

VICTORY

Quite lucky to win in the end, but with a couple more things going my way I could have easily taken the game at the top of 3 so I’m not disappointed with the result. I am however a bit uncertain about the list. It certainly isn’t a bad list, but something about it does feel very uncomfortable. I want to test it more, but I can’t help thinking that this game would have been pretty comfortable for my usual Vyros2 list. Still, on to round 2 with a win, with 2 Khador and some Trolls my potential opponents

Game 158: Rahn vs Zaadesh2

Game 158 – Vs Ryan Longthorne – Skorne – 10/03/18

My list:

Adeptis Rahn (Defenders of Ios)

-Sylys Wyshnaylrr, The Seeker

-Chimera

-Phoenix

Arcantrik Force Generator

Arcantrik Force Generator

Arcanist Mechanik

Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios

Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen

Max Houseguard Halberdiers

-Officer & Standard Bearer

Max Houseguard Halberdiers

-Officer & Standard Bearer

Lynus Wesselbaum & Edrea Lloryrr

His List:

Lord Tyrant Zaadesh (Imperial Warhost)

-Basilisk Krea

-Basilisk Krea

-Agonizer

-Bronzeback Titan

-Cyclops Shaman

-Titan Gladiator

-Titan Sentry

Siege Animantarax

Siege Animantarax

Bog Trog Mist Speaker

Paingiver Beast Handlers

Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

The final test game for Rahn this weekend saw me up against a classic beast brick with a number of anti-gunline elements, to test whether Rahn has enough tricks to be able to overcome. With Zaadesh’s ability to put up clouds it was going to be key to keep Edrea safe, especially until the Seige Animantarax were dead and the shooting threat removed. Ryan won the roll to go first and we got moving.

The Paingivers whip the Animantarax, giving them 3 Rage Tokens ready for next turn, before all of Ryan’s forces run up the table, the 2 Battle Engines flanking the central beasts. Zaadesh puts up Battle-Charged to give his beasts Counter-Charge and Inviolable Resolve onto the right Animantarax.

I have to be careful of Ryan’s threat ranges, but still need to get up the table. I flood the right zone with things that he can’t charge, getting both AFGs and Polarity Shielded Halberdiers into it. On the left I move Halberds and my Phoenix to the edge of the zone. Lynus and Edrea stay at the back, waiting to see where clouds may need to be removed next turn.

My Phoenix was positioned much too far forward and Ryan punished me for it, charging in his Battle Engine, and taking it out with its guns and melee attacks with a couple of Halberdiers thrown in. On the right the other Battle Engine takes out a number of Halberdiers and puts its gun shots into Skeryth, leaving him with 2 boxes on his horse. The rest of the beasts move up behind clouds to threaten next turn.

I start to look at an assassination run involving slamming models over a zero camp Zaadesh, but abandon it to play the attrition instead. I TK both of the Animantarax away and backwards, before charging the left one with Team Efforted Halberdiers, my Chimera, and Skeryth, destroying it. The one on the right is a tougher nut to crack, as it still has Inviolable Resolve up, but with my other Halberdiers, both AFGs and Eiryss finishing it off with a Deadly Shot it goes down as well. I score the left zone for a 1-0 lead.

Ryan strikes back but with him unable to charge anything on the right there is a limited amount that he can get done. The Bronzeback gets Rushed and walks up to my Chimera, destroying it and removing my final Arc Node, and the Sentry on the right is able to get into the Halberdiers, removing a reasonable amount of them. Again Zaadesh puts down some clouds and Feats, placing himself on the flag to level up the score at 1-1.

I feel well up on attrition and so just need to keep it up and grind out CPs or wait for an assassination opportunity. With both Arc Nodes goneI have to move Rahn up and Feat to Force Hammer the Bronzeback and TK the Sentry, before moving myself back behind the building. The AFGs take out the Sentry and have a spare shot to slam the Krea into the building, and the Halberds on the right can take it and the Mist Speaker out. On the left Skeryth Precision Strikes  the knocked down Bronzeback, taking out it’s Spirit, before the Halberdiers on the left finish it off, but in my excitement I forget to reposition them. I score the right zone to move into a 2-1 lead.

Ryan feels that the game has gone and chooses to see how much work he can get done. Zaadesh charges into my Halberdiers and buys Flashing Blades until they are all gone, and on the right the remaining Titan Tramples over to my AFG, but is unable to kill it. Nobody scores so it remains 2-1 to me.

Assassination time. I run a Halberdier back to back with Zaadesh, before Rahn Force Hammers him, knocking both down. Eiryss shoots off his Fury with a Disruptor Bolt before the AFG shoots him to death.

VICTORY

A really useful game to see what the list can handle, and despite a few errors on my part (mainly giving away the Phoenix early) the list performed really well. I still feel like I need more reps with the list, and am not entirely sure how it fits in a pair, but I have a Steamroller next weekend to work that out in.